Centering Equity and Climate Action in COVID-19 Recovery

[music]

[00:00:04] Jo Peña: Thanks for joining us for this episode of the APA podcast. My name is Jo Peña. I'm a research associate at APA. Cities around the world are reimagining how they can use policy tools to meet community needs as they address COVID-19 challenges. In Portland, Oregon, the City Council recently adopted a resolution that highlights the connections between equity, climate, and recovery. Joining me today to discuss the connection between the newly adopted resolution and planning practice are Andrea Durbin, the director of Portland's Bureau of Planning and Sustainability, and Dr. Markisha Smith, director of Portland's Office of Equity and Human Rights. Andrea and Dr. Smith, thanks for speaking to us today. I'd like to start with quick introductions for our listeners. Would you give a brief overview of your respective departments, their missions and responsibilities? Dr. Smith, can we start with you?

[00:00:58] Dr. Markisha Smith: Sure. So Markisha Smith, and my office is the Office of Equity and Human Rights at the City of Portland. And our office was established some time ago back in 2011, 2012. And the idea behind the office was to really make sure that there was a level of collaboration and support for other bureaus as they were attempting to begin this work around equity. And at the time, it was very new in the city. And so there was a really heavy internal focus. And so that came through education and through policy writing and support. And then because the community had been very instrumental in establishing our office, there was a need to make sure we continued to stay connected with community, and so our outward-facing work also began to really pick up through advisory groups and committees and commissions like our Human Rights Commission. And so we have an inward-outward-facing model, but we do center race and disability in our work. And everything that we create, we craft, really is with that in mind. We have recently also begun to think about what intersectionality looks like in the work that we do as, as an office. So that's a little bit about us.

[00:02:22] JP: Thank you, Dr. Smith. And Andrea, would you be able to tell us a little bit more about the Bureau of Planning and Sustainability?

[00:02:30] Andrea Durbin: Sure, absolutely. I'm Andrea Durbin. I'm the director of the Bureau of Planning and Sustainability for the City of Portland. And we are responsible for long-term planning in the city and sustainability practices and our long-term livability strategy for the city. And the Bureau of Planning and Sustainability were — emerged over 10 years ago. And at the time, our short-term planning responsibilities was moved to a different department. And really, I think the genesis was kind of recognition that to create livable communities, communities that are really healthy, resilient, prosperous, we needed to really center sustainability in that work as well. And so we are the bureau that's also responsible for our climate-action planning in the city and really putting the city on a path to meet our carbon-reduction goals and to become a net-zero city that is healthy, resilient, and equitable.

[00:03:35] JP: It sounds like there's significant overlap between these two different departments, right, especially when we're talking about engaging the community and identifying what they want for the future, and then also doing that in an equitable way. The resolution that we saw come out recently in May seemed to be like a really good example of how equity and community engagement can work together. Could you tell us a little bit more about that resolution?

[00:04:05] Dr. Smith: Right, so the resolution really happened very quickly, and our office, with some of our equity managers who are positioned in bureaus around the city, had been working on an equity toolkit, really, which was some guidance around how to approach conversations and decision making as it related to COVID-19 response and relief, and in particular thinking about what that looked like for communities of color. And so that was happening. And some of our council executives got wind of that information and were like, Oh, my goodness, this would be a perfect time to think about how we bring forth something to council to really sort of marry the, the concepts of equity and climate, right? What does that look like? And so it took off pretty quickly. And all of a sudden I'm getting a flurry of emails about, you know, "Look at this, look at that, how's this language?" I think one of the very powerful things about the resolution is it was a wonderful collaborative effort across our council offices, which I think is, you know, sometimes that's hit or miss — right? — depending on what, what the agenda is. And I also think for the first time it really established some authority in some ways, in particular for our office to move forward some things that are specific to equity, and in this case our COVID relief efforts. And that had not been the case before. And I think it really clearly articulated what the conditions were as we're thinking about our community now and what that looks like both on the climate side and as we think about equity — right? — for, for folks living in Portland and playing, living, working in Portland. And so I think that, you know, was a perfect time, given where we are in this pandemic and sort of where we are socially to have some, like, something like this come together and have unanimous support from our, from our City Council. And that was really exciting to see. So that's a little bit about how it came to be. I think Andrea and I were just told to look at this and make edits [laughs]. But it really was, it was an awesome opportunity, I think, for both of our — our bureaus, for Andrea and for our office.

[00:06:23] JP: It definitely seems like the resolution includes so many different details and data points that relate to what community members are dealing with in Portland. So I think it does a really interesting job of kind of setting the stage for why the actions are listed in the, in the resolution are important. Were — was the resolution influenced by other cities who maybe are doing something similar, or is this something that we're seeing for the first time maybe in the U.S.?

[00:06:55] AD: I think that this is really a — Portland is really stepping out and leading in this way and trying to take this inter— integrated look at how do we center both racial equity and climate in our work. I think for us, this was really an opportunity as the bureau that's kind of responsible for kind of long-term planning, our comprehensive plan really identifies equity — building prosperous, equitable, resilient, and healthy communities as our kind of core function and goal. And we knew that in order to achieve that, that this global pandemic crisis was kind of an opportunity to really shift and think about how do we, how do we achieve those outcomes. And I think it's very easy in a crisis like that to just kind of respond quickly and respond kind of in the moment without really going back to our core values. And I think that that's what the important aspect that this recovery and resiliency resolution serves for the City of Portland is it kind of goes back to our core values of how do we — as we recover and build our resiliency from out of this crisis, how do we recover better? How do we build back better? And I think that's really one of the core goals of that resolution was for us and our City Council. I also think that the —  before the global pandemic, the crisis we were looking at and really focusing on was is climate crisis and how to respond and provide that acceleration of kind of a new economy that creates healthy, living wage jobs and addresses those that are most impacted by climate change, which are, you know, black, indigenous, and communities of color, low-income communities. And so I think that's really that intersectionality both — before the climate crisis, you know, before the pan— global pandemic, we had the climate crisis. And in that crisis, it's mostly communities of color that are impacted. And then what we've seen in the COVID-19 crisis is the same thing, that it's mostly black and brown people that are impacted disproportionately. So I think that's kind of the, really kind of recognizing that we have — equity is essential, that we have to work towards building more equitable outcomes and addressing racial equity in our work. And the resolution provides that kind of foundational piece for us as we — as the city shifts into the next work, which is really around how do we recover from the COVID crisis and what does it look like.

[00:09:48] JP: Yeah, that that makes sense. There's definitely opportunities, I think, when the systems that were in place are no longer working to address the needs of a community; there's an opportunity to do things differently, potentially. One thing that I did notice while reading the resolution, in addition to communicating the core values that are important for comprehensive planning, there seem to be the connection between social aspects, environmental aspects, and also the economic aspects that ultimately impact how these, how communities can come back from situations like what we're facing today. So I'm curious to know, are these concepts applied as lenses independently from one another? Or are there synergies potentially between the three different components of sustainability?

[00:10:41] AD: They're absolutely synergies. I think the, I think that's really what we're trying to do is kind of look for those synergies and recognize the interconnectedness between — our ability to build prosperous communities is based on our ability to address equity and make sure that we are looking at shared wealth and wealth distribution and access and educational access to educational opportunities and, you know, really looking at how do we take a much more integrated approach. I mean, the fact that more black and brown folks are impacted by COVID-19 is because of the lack of access to health care and having long-term kind of health challenges that make them more susceptible. Or, you know, I think part of the work that Dr. Smith and I are really trying to do across the City of Portland with other bureaus is really is to take that more integrative approach that we, as we build towards a city that is, kind of has more economic shared prosperity and is healthier and is more equitable, I mean, we have to kind of recognize those interconnect— an interconnectivity between our work. And I think even in our climate work, we're really looking at how are we delivering solutions to lift up the communities that are most impacted by climate change, so low-income residents or communities of color, black, indigenous, communities of color. And, you know, such as looking at how do we — we have a new program called the Portland Clean Energy Fund that we're establishing, and we'll be distributing funding starting this — later this year. And that is really looking at how do we, how do we increase the energy efficiency for residents? How do we reduce their energy burden, the cost burden? How do we provide more transportation options for residents, really kind of looking at how do we, how do we make sure that the transportation system is safer and so that, so that our black and indigenous and people of color feel safe using transit in the first place. So it's really trying to take [a] more integrative approach. These are not kind of cookie-cutter approaches. We really have to kind of think differently that the — fundamentally what's preventing us from making progress is often a lot more complicated, and we have to kind of come at it from very, from many different directions.

[00:13:08] JP: Yeah, in terms of collaboration between the different departments, it sounds like Dr. Smith referred to the process as a flurry of emails earlier on coming back and forth when folks are working on language for the resolution. What did the process look like when you all were working on this together? Were there other teams that were involved? And more specifically, what was the role of the planning department in kind of applying brainpower to identify those individualized solutions that will work for Portland?

[00:13:41] AD: Yeah, the planning department — we had early conversations with the, with the mayor's team about the need to really center our values in any recovery effort. And so I think that those conversations were the inspiration for the resolution. And then, you know, the, the mayor's team really took the lead in convening, drafting the resolution, and working with different bureaus: Dr. Smith's bureau, the Office of Equity and Human Rights, the Bureau of Planning and Sustainability, as well as others, our Housing Bureau, our Economic Development Bureau, Prosper Portland, and getting input in shaping of that. And they worked with other council offices for input and also worked with community members and received input that way as well. So I think at the council session where this was adopted, there was good representation from different communities as well in support of this and really kind of recognizing that — because I know it was a poignant moment because it was kind of this recognition that we, as we, as we — you know, we're still in this crisis. But as we emerge from the public health crisis and economic crisis that COVID-19 has introduced, how do we emerge differently? How do we — you know, I think there was kind of this acknowledgement that we don't, we don't wanna go back to the way it was — the back. The way it was wasn't working. And we need to really transform the way that we are working, and I think the community has been a very strong proponent of that and is going to be kind of a partner in that work. And that's really, I think, one of the goals of the resolution is to kind of reaffirm our community-centered approach to policymaking and conversations about what the, what the city does and how we lead.

[00:15:41] JP: Thanks. As a side comment, Dr. Smith, is there anything else that you'd like to add about the collaborative process?

[00:15:46] Dr. Smith: I just think what was for me, I think, really kind of a wonderful display of how everything had come together was at the, the council session where this was adopted. And to really hear — so, you know, Andrew and I both had a little part in sort of sharing kind of how we had gotten to where we were, we were in that moment. But I think for me, what was really powerful was the community input and really their support and their just willingness to continue to partner with us as we move forward in this. And so I thought that, for me, that was really — you know, we do our things internally. Right? And we kind of, you know, we have process and procedure behind that, and we get, you know, we sort of get things to the finish line. But I think really that community support, which, you know, that doesn't always happen — right? — when things are being brought forth to council, and really to sort of have that, that unanimous support from, from our community partners was, for me, really a highlight of watching that, you know, watching that get adopted. So that's what I would add.

[00:16:49] JP: It sounds like a reaffirming moment where all of the work that you've been putting into something is resonating with the folks that will ultimately impact. So that's, that's reassuring to hear from where I'm sitting outside of Portland. One question for you all on community input and different guidance that's in place. Earlier, we briefly touched on the equity toolkit for COVID-19 that was produced by the Office of Equity and Human Rights. And so it sounds like there's parallel language and there's additional guidance in there. How do the toolkit and the resolution relate to one another, and what is the role of community engagement in terms of that equity toolkit?

[00:17:37] Dr. Smith: So the toolkit, just to back backup a little bit — you're correct in that, you know, our office was really pushing for that work, but there was really an effort within our Emergency — our ECC, our Emergency Coordination Center, for COVID relief efforts. They are structured in a way that there are, you know, several different folks that are working on things kind of in a rapid manner and having to really quickly respond to things happening both internally and externally. And one of the things that one of our equity managers was noticing is that they were doing the work, but they weren't necessarily doing it with an equity framework. And so she was really concerned and was bringing that back to me and was like, "I, you know, I really think we need to provide some guidance." And I'm like, "Absolutely." Simultaneously, I was in conversations with our Economic Relief Task Force that was really looking at what was happening to businesses in Portland and in particular a focus on BIPOC businesses — so black, indigenous, people of color businesses, women. And so they were also seeking some guidance. And so it was really sort of this interesting, like, Oh my goodness, I'm doing this body of work and people need some help, and you're over there doing this body of work and people need some help. And so we came together in that way and really developed the toolkit with input from what was happening at our, our ECC, what was happening just citywide that we were observing. There is a joint community arm of the emergency work that really gets a lot of firsthand information about community needs. And so from that list, we were able to really sort of pull together, I think, some data points that make sense for folks as they're picking up that toolkit and thinking about how they use it to make their decisions. We have data there from the county and the county is, you know, our health — they are responsible really in a lot of ways for the leadership in this, because this is a health pandemic. And so Multnomah County provided data that was very important for folks to see as it relates to COVID and the disparate impacts that it is having on communities of color. We have information there about just sort of considerations, so like, what are some things that you need to be thinking about as you're making decisions? And so all of that is wrapped up into this toolkit. And it's, it's lengthy. We're, we're working on sort of a more digestible version of it. But I think if nothing else, my hope is that it slows folks down and that we're not making decisions without really being very, very intentional about them and centering communities that we have not centered before or maybe we have thought that we've considered but have not. And so I think this is really an opportunity to do that. And so the resolution really gives my office, the Office of Equity and Human Rights, the authority to hold folks accountable for using components of the toolkit. And so that is exciting because we have not had that kind of authority before. Now, I think we're important now. We're always important. But, you know, we got really fancy after the resolution, so [laughs]. I think it's awesome that, you know, this gives us a little bit of teeth to really say, "Hey, folks, like, we've got, we've got to center some communities in a, in a different way. And here's a document to help us do that. And we're gonna be with you every step of the way as we, as we get there."

[00:21:19] AD: And just to add to that, the resolution requires each bureau to report back to the Office of Equity and Human Rights on how we're doing on the progress. And so it kind of — that's part of that accountability function. I think that's really, it's been a missing piece is we've got this commitment, but we don't have that accountability built in to our process. And so I think that's one of the other positive outcomes of this resolution, is that it'll, it'll kind of build in some internal processes, procedures for us to really start to figure out how do we operationalize this commitment. And likewise, the Bureau of Planning and Sustainability is developing a similar toolkit resources on the climate side so that bureaus have more tools and understanding of how do they apply the, the climate lens to their work and how to evaluate that.

[00:22:12] JP: Yeah, it sounds like when it comes to applying equity, there's sometimes maybe some hesitation on how to move forward with things. So having more concrete guidance or data points can definitely be very reassuring for folks who might not be as familiar with the terms or understanding, well, what does it actually mean to approach things in an equitable way, whether it means — whether it's in relation to COVID-19 or climate. It's, it's something that maybe might not come as naturally to departments who may not have had as much exposure to those concepts. We touched on this briefly, but I'm curious to know, how do you think the resolution and the equity toolkit will guide the city's actions? And have there been any implementation efforts so far?

[00:23:03] Dr. Smith: So I think the efforts just in terms of guidance — you know, we are, we are going to make sure that folks feel comfortable with the toolkit. And so I know Andrea and I have scheduled some time for me to come and talk with her leadership team about kind of what does this look like and how do we use this and to really sort of dig into that a little bit more. And so I think that's, you know, that's one piece of it. So I will say that we have, we're in the process of actually getting a position description for a limited-term position in my office to help move some of the work forward. And that was a surprise. I was not expecting that. It was a wonderful, wonderful gift out of all of this, to help build some capacity. And so that will help us kind of move forward with implementation. I think we're using it some in now in our, our CARES Act discussions. And so we're thinking about, you know, how do, how do our CARES Act funding, how does that get spent? And, you know, how are we investing in, in ways that center our black, indigenous, and people of color communities? And so that's recent work. And Andrea's a part of that with me that, you know, even in our conversation last week, I'm hearing people refer to information in the toolkit. And that's very, like, just uplifts me, right? Because I know that the work is not in vain. And so that's one sort of concrete, concrete way that I'm seeing the toolkit be implemented in the moment.

[00:24:38] AD: And I would add the, I think the passage of this resolution was — the timing of it was really important, because it was passed, and kind of, again, it sets kind of that foundation for decision making and prioritization of the work going forward and in how we recover from COVID-19. And then the next week, the City Council had — the week after the passage of the resolution, City Council had a work session on the CARES Act dollars and how to prioritize allocation of those dollars within the community. And as Dr. Smith mentions, you know, she and I and a couple of other bureau directors are working with City Council executives to help prioritize, make recommendations of how those funds should be prioritized, and really centering equity and centering directly supporting black, indigenous, and communities of color being kind of our core priority. We're seeing that be applied and carried through, and our City Council will have a session next week where they will make the decisions about how to allocate those dollars.

[00:25:45] JP: Sounds like a data-driven approach that, you know, is working out because of a tool that was readily available. So speaking of a data-driven approach, it sounds like there are opportunities to measure implementation and what success looks like. How will the planning department be involved in implementation, and what would it look like to implement the actions in the resolution in a way that elevates equity?

[00:26:17] AD: Well, the planning department is involved in implementation in a number of ways. We are supporting the CARES Act distribution of dollars. The Bureau of Planning and Sustainability has lead — a leading role in developing our antidisplacement strategy for the city and [we're] working collaboratively with community to do that. And so we're in the process of standing up a joint community-city task force that's going to be evaluating actions, antidisplacement actions that can keep people in place, keep businesses in place, keep cultural institutions in place. [The] City of Portland, like many other cities, we've seen with, with gentrification, we've seen our communities of color be pushed out. And we're really looking to how to, how do we put in place programs that are able to keep our community embedded and stabilized. And so that'll be a core role that we will play as well, working across the city with our bureau of partners. And then we have [a] particular leadership role in the climate work as well. We are building our own toolkit for other bureaus to adopt and kind of track. We as — we are responsible for measuring overall our progress on carbon emission reductions. And we are looking to — there will be a resolution that we're bringing to council later in June that will launch a new process, climate justice collaboratory process, which is really centering our climate planning moving forward with community and finding those actions that help lift up communities, that help deliver direct benefits to communities of color, low-income residents. And all the while, we're reducing carbon emissions. And so we have a lot of different roles that we will be playing in advancing our kind of core values around equity and climate.

[00:28:21] JP: Dr. Smith, when folks are reporting back to you, even aside from, you know, the Bureau of Planning and Sustainability, what are some of the metrics that are part of those reports to your office?

[00:28:34] Dr. Smith: Yeah, so we're actually in the process of developing what that looks like. So I have some folks on my team that really want to make it something that is not cumbersome, something that is of value, I think, to a bureau, and not just in this moment as we think about COVID but really beyond. And so I really see the work that we're doing with the resolution, with the toolkit, you know, having a life after COVID. And so we really want to make this something that, you know, is useful to bureaus. And for me, and maybe this goes back to my, my career as a teacher, it was always important not to shame my students, right, when they maybe weren't quite making the mark. And so I don't want this to be an exercise where bureaus feel like they're being shamed or called out or, like, gotcha. Right? Like, that's not the intention of the work of the toolkit or the spirit of this resolution. And so as we're thinking about what those metrics look like, it's really going to be, like I said, something that is of value, I think, for us across the city. And so I could, you know, definitely see things as it relates to, you know, what are kind of — where are dollars going as we think about relief. That's really a big deal right now with, with COVID, you know, and sort of what is, what is recovery look like? What does that look like as we are supporting, you know, small business? What does that look like as we're trying to partner with Multnomah County on the health side? And so those are the sorts of things that I think, you know, we'll be asking bureaus, and it will depend, right? Because bureaus do different things. And so what we're asking the water bureau will be very different, say, than what we're asking, you know, our transportation bureau. But the goal being that it is — we can clearly see how communities of color have been centered and that we are being intentional about what that looks like. And so I've got some folks that are much better at some of those things than me. I got the big ideas, right, and they sort of put them all together and make them something that's palatable for everybody. But that is coming. So we are, we're excited about the process.

[00:30:47] JP: It sounds like there's lots of smaller pieces that kind of fit into that bigger picture overview. And, you know, it's kind of, it's hard to talk about equity right now without thinking maybe more about that larger picture perspective across the nation. In many cities, we're seeing racial equity and justice come to the forefront as communities work to identify and change conditions that lead to systemic racism. What do resolutions like the one passed in Portland contribute to that sort of conversation, and how do they fit into a larger picture where there are benefits that are coming to a community in a more equitable way?

[00:31:25] Dr. Smith: I'll just share quickly, I think that it — we're centering, we're centering race in this, and I think as we think about what our current climate looks like, that it's really important that we are centering black folks and black community in a way that we haven't before. And so that's, you know, constantly at the forefront for me. And I think that resolutions like this highlight the need. They give us the rationale. You know, documents like the toolkit give us the data. And so, you know, sometimes it takes all of that. You would like to think that we have a moral imperative just to do the things that we need to do [laughs]. But sometimes we need a little nudge, right. We need some extra stuff to help us get there. And so I think things like the toolkit, like this resolution, are those pieces that really sort of come together for folks. And, you know, like, we, we have no other choice. Right? We have to do this in, in a way that we haven't done it before. And like Andrea said, we can't continue to do things on the other side of this, the way that we've done them. Right? That has not worked. We know that. Right? We've got to lay that to rest and to think differently now. And so it gives us that leverage in a way I believe that, you know, hasn't been there before, and just a collective voice. And I think that that's going to be something that really empowers us moving forward in this work. And so it makes me feel hopeful that, you know, we'll get to something that is sustainable and something that is just and something that is very different than what we've had before, and for me, you know, I want this to look different for my children. And so I'm often, you know, sort of thinking about them in my mind as well as all of this, this comes together. So it just has to [laughs].

[00:33:11] AD: You know, this resiliency recovery resolution was passed in May before George Floyd's killing. And obviously things have changed rapidly since then. And we are seeing a nation in crisis yet again, but really kind of confronting the, our historical racism. And for the, for us, at the City of Portland, for the Bureau of Planning and Sustainability, we've really been trying to confront the impact of racism in — through land use policies and the impact that that has had on our community and specifically our black and indigenous and communities of color. Last year, the — we produced a report looking at the racist history of land use and zoning policies in the City of Portland and had an opportunity to engage with community and with our city council and have a dialogue about that. And I think while there's a real centering focus looking at police reform, which is absolutely essential, the — it doesn't stop there. It really, it needs to — we need to all look at the roles that we play in city government and how racism is institutionalized and the pieces that we can unbuild and break down. And I know that that's certainly gonna be the work that we're going to be looking at is how do we go forward and really center racial justice in our land use and zoning approaches.

[00:34:50] JP: It sounds like there's a relationship between that land use approach and then what we were talking about earlier in terms of connecting rationale with data. Right? So with these, it's a, kind of like a double whammy type of a thing, right. You've got information on how to move forward and then also details to back it up on why it's necessary to consider things through different lenses. For planners who are interested in doing something similar like this in their communities, what tools and skills should planners have to support interdepartmental collaborative efforts like the ones that we're talking about?

[00:35:29] Dr. Smith: I'll just quickly say, and then, Andrea, since you spoke specifically about planners, I think it's communication is really key. And as much as leaders can communicate, I appreciate Andrea's collaborative spirit, and we, we talk all the time about a variety of things. But I think that's really, you know, an important piece, right, is that you have leadership that's talking and that is willing to, to be in the work together and try and see a collective vision for it moving forward. So that would be my little, my little piece.

[00:36:05] AD: Yeah, completely agree with Markisha. And the — I think to break down the silos and see the interconnectedness of the issues and outcomes we're trying to work towards. We can — as government, we cannot be effective if we're only focusing on our own bureau or own kind of world. We need to kind of look at those, the intersectionality of the work that we're doing. And I think it's also acknowledging and affirming and recognizing the history and the impact and working with community and listening to community and taking the lead from community. Because community is — they, you know, our community members are living the experience. They know. They're impacted directly. They know best what solutions are required. And we need to work jointly together with community to find the solutions together and be partners, true partners.

[00:37:02] JP: There's definitely something that we can all learn from working together and applying our specific areas of expertise. Is there a specific space where folks can go to learn more about the work that your departments are doing in Portland? Maybe they can apply some of this information in their own practice.

[00:37:21] Dr. Smith: So I think we're posting information about the toolkit and sort of all of those kinds of documents on our website. And so that's, that's one piece. I think we have a social media presence. Our office, Office of Equity and Human Rights, through Facebook that also offers links to this kind of work. We had the resolution and those sorts of things posted when it came out. And so that really has been a wonderful vehicle for communication around, you know, how folks can know what's happening and potentially get involved. So those are two different places that come to mind for me.

[00:37:59] AD: Yeah, similarly, we have a lot of information about our work at the Bureau of Planning and Sustainability website and encourage people to to look there and also to reach out. We're happy to provide some support and input. I think one of the opportunities that we're trying to — in doing this podcast is really to share experience and share our approach so that other cities will adopt similar approaches, and we won't have a more just and fair country unless, really, cities all work together, band together, and center equity and climate action. And, you know, cities are really the agents of change. So cities need to lead.

[00:38:43] JP: I think that says a lot, especially about what's happening in Portland and reflects on the collaboration that's taking place to make your community a better place. Thank you both for joining us. It's been a pleasure speaking with you both and learning from you about your experiences. Good luck with implementing all of the actions that were put forth on that resolution. I look forward to seeing what is, what happens in Portland in the future.

[00:39:11] AD: Thank you very much.

[00:39:12] Dr. Smith: Thank you.

[music]