Ten Percent Braver: Championing Personal Resilience with Jaz Ampaw-Farr

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[00:38] - Mike Johnson

Hello and welcome to this special episode of the APA Podcast. I'm your host, Mike Johnson, with the American Planning Association. We're coming to you today from the 2026 National Planning Conference here in Detroit, Michigan. And we're excited to be joined by UK author, speaker, positive disruptor, and self-described resilience ninja, Jaz Ampow-Farr, who just finished kicking off NPC26 with the opening keynote. Jaz, thanks so much for taking some time to chat with us today.

[01:09] - Jaz Ampaw-Farr

Oh, it's my pleasure. Thank you so much, Mike.

[01:12] - Mike Johnson

So, uh, what's your, uh, first impressions of Detroit so far?

[01:16] - Jaz Ampaw-Farr

Well, you know, I am already planning on moving here. The people more than anything. Everyone is just so So friendly. I really, really like it.

[01:25] - Mike Johnson

Get a taste of the, uh, Midwest nice here in Detroit.

[01:28] - Jaz Ampaw-Farr

Absolutely. Yeah. Midwest charm, Midwest food. I'm all in.

[01:31] - Mike Johnson

Absolutely. I'm with you. So, um, for our listeners and, and members, uh, who may not know much about your background and your story, can you just give us a little bit, uh, of your journey and, and kind of where you, how you got to where you are today?

[01:44] - Jaz Ampaw-Farr

Yeah. So I was a teacher originally, and I was very passionate about reading, writing, and spelling. They were my tickets out of mindset poverty. Because I grew up in foster care and on the streets. I was neglected and abused by my own parents. Um, I wasn't very happy with myself. I was angry with everyone and angry with myself. So it'd been incredibly difficult to go through being a young person, then a teenager. But I had 5 everyday heroes, as I like to call them, 5 teachers in my case, who just fought for my highest good and saw behind the front. That I was putting on. So it led me to— I wanna— it wasn't easy, but it led me to this place of being a teacher and the passion I had there for being a positive disruptor. Um, and it wasn't until later on when I started realizing that I kind of wasn't being honest. I was so worried that people would find out about my X Factor backstory, you know, about how awful my life had been, and they would judge me for that. I was scared and I was doing some coaching in a school, working with leaders, and started thinking, "Actually, my story's got merit because it shows people there's a next." So I started sharing that, and then I did a little talk.

There's only about 500 people, and I shared a little bit of my story, and it trended on Twitter, as it was at the time. And the last time it had trended, I'd been fired from "The Apprentice," which was horrible trending, but this was cool. And then I got a book deal, I did a TEDx Talk, I started being invited to speak all around the world. So it wasn't really a plan, and yet here we are.

[03:19] - Mike Johnson

It just kind of happened.

[00:03:21.220] - Mike Johnson

It was your destiny.

[03:22] - Jaz Ampaw-Farr

From saying yes, from saying yes. 'Cause I think that's the thing. People are like, "That's amazing." And it's like, it's amazing because of yes, because of choice, you know? Mm-hmm.

[03:30] - Mike Johnson

So you champion what you call being 10% braver.

[03:34] - Jaz Ampaw-Farr

Yes.

[03:35] - Mike Johnson

What do you mean exactly by 10% braver, and what could that look like for planners?

[03:40] - Jaz Ampaw-Farr

Mm. So 10% braver in general is the idea of trying to do literally the smallest next step. So even just sometimes that might be turning your head in the direction of where you want to go, or it might be doing a Google search for the sort of thing that you want to move into. And I give examples in the keynote of, you know, for some people 10% braver is simply raising their hand in a meeting. That's a huge thing for some people. For some people it's, it's leaving work and starting their own business. For some people it's leaving a toxic relationship that they're in. There are so many different ways. For me, being 10% braver, because I do it regularly, is applying and getting on reality TV shows every 20 years. I've taken it to a new edge. But I, I think for planners, or everyday heroes as I shall henceforth be referring to them as, for planners, the whole thing about being 10% braver is making sure that you have what you need to give what you want to give. You know that whole thing of like, you're supposed to serve from your saucer, not from your cup?

In order to have overflowing tea, as we do in Britain, you have to keep yourself topped up in order to serve from your saucer. The moment you start letting people drink out of your cup— well, first of all, germs. Second of all, you've got nothing left. So being 10% braver is sometimes it's about you saying yes or no when it serves you. Because the moment you— people, planners are so generous, they want to help, they want to turn, they want to turn something into something greater, go from good to great, but not never at the detriment of yourself. Because the people I've met today especially, there's something around encouraging others to go on their journey. But if you are on your journey but you're kind of burnt out, you're not a great advert for, you know, moving forward. So the 10% braver might be taking a little look about where you are, the impact you've had, owning that impact, and using that as a springboard and foundation for your next step. But you've got to make it small because we're not trying to, you know, win a marathon on day one. It's just one Bulgarian squat.

I've been doing a few of those lately. I'll tell you, one is a win.

[05:49] - Mike Johnson

Well, I love the sort of sliding scale of what that 10% is, and it's not really— or it could be different for— from person to person. And it's sort of up to the people to sort of decide what is their 10%, what are they able to do?

[06:02] - Jaz Ampaw-Farr

And it's cumulative. Once you've been 10% braver, so you take a meeting with people that have been disgruntled, you take that meeting and you find out actually that when you, when you do withness, people start to feel heard. And so you meet them with empathy and then you engage them in a conversation and then it's so much easier to enroll them. So once you've done that, then your 10% braver is 10% braver from where you are. So you— and you come up against a challenge and you say to yourself, okay, what would I do if I was 10% braver? And then suddenly you start stepping into that mold. So it becomes who you are once you take that first tiny step.

[06:39] - Mike Johnson

I love that. You had a great line this morning in your opening keynote address where you said everything you want is on the other side of a 10-minute courageous conversation. And sometimes that conversation is with yourself.

[06:52] - Jaz Ampaw-Farr

Yeah.

[06:53] - Mike Johnson

Can you explain what you mean by that?

[06:55] - Jaz Ampaw-Farr

Yes, we are often in our own way, you know. There's like— there are some real barriers. Like, I don't want to go to prison, so I'm not going to rob a bank, right? That's a real barrier. It's not perceived, it's real. But then there are also barriers that I perceive that can feel as real as if you rob a bank, you will go to prison, but actually it's not. So one of mine the whole time was No one's going to believe you. You shouldn't speak about what happened to you. If you want to get ahead, you've got to try and blend in. You're broken. You know, these were things that kind of felt— I'm not making this up, this is real. This is absolutely real. In fact, the biggest one— I don't often tell people this, but the biggest one, um, my— everyone in my family is white. I'm brown. I'm actually caramel taupe. I matched myself against a paint chart. Caramel taupe is more accurate. But, uh, so my biological mother was white and she was raped conceived me, didn't know she was pregnant, and then went to hospital with suspected appendicitis, and out I came.

So when I heard the story— and she would often tell me herself, but when my grandparents confirmed— I had this whole kind of foundation of, I wasn't meant to exist, I wasn't meant to be here. So what I started doing— and I hate the phrase, but trying to make the best of a bad job— so I saw the highest possible thing that could happen would be people considering me acceptable, not being accepted, that I might as well wish to be a swordfish, but people considering me to be acceptable. And that was the, the biggest bar I could imagine happening. And it wasn't until sort of with hindsight, looking back, looking at where I was and where I am, that I kind of realized how much I'd contained out of self-preservation, you know, out of fear. How much I'd let fear drive the bus. And I'm like, you know what, I'm driving the bus, and I'm not going to live like that. I'm not going to do that. And it still took some time, but it, it kind of was a real thing. So that, that 10-minute courageous conversation with yourself, it's like sitting down and saying, hey girl, you know I love you, right?

You know I'm for you. Yeah. If you don't let go of this ridiculous negative self-talk, you are going to eventually make yourself ill and burn yourself out. So I'm establishing that I'm on your side, and then I'm punching you in the throat so that you will hear me and do something about it. And I think that's, that's it. It's not— a courageous conversation isn't like, um, attacking yourself. It's saying, hey, you know, I'm on your side. Hey, you know what, you know, I'm rooting for you. This is where we are, this is where we want to be, and this is our smallest next step. I'm going, are you coming with me? And it's, it's that gentle kind of invitation. I think I try and have courageous conversations with my kids, but they don't see it as that. They see it as something slightly different. But, uh, so I, I just think it's giving it— getting out of your own way and giving yourself a bit of grace and a bit of space to imagine what could be.

[09:59] - Mike Johnson

And I loved how you reframed that, because when you brought this, this sort of idea up in the keynote, you said it's not difficult conversation.

[10:06] - Jaz Ampaw-Farr

No, it's courageous. That's— and that's the whole thing. It's framing that conversation, because often, like, when two— you know, people have said to me today, I have a challenging league, don't we all? But the whole thing, the moment you say, I have a diff— I've got to have a difficult conversation, or it's going to be harder, I have this— you're actually projecting difficulty onto the difficult situation. So our language, which has such an amazing role— you say things once, you've got two ears, you hear them twice— it has such amazing impact on the way our brain works, like psychologically, the way, the way our amygdala behaves. It's— our words have such a strong impact. The more you start shifting that into something manageable, the easier it is. So I don't have difficult conversations, but I do have courageous conversations. And I'll say to my husband, babe, can we have— can I have a courageous conversation with you? Which is great for him because he immediately hears that framing and goes, I'm just going to get a cup of tea. And he straps himself in, you know. So it's just a kind of— it's, you know, you're going to get heard.

If you ask for a courageous conversation, because people suddenly give you their attention because they know it's taken courage for you to even ask. So it's a beautiful way of framing instead of jumping into the hard stuff, which feels hard.

[11:20] - Mike Johnson

Absolutely. And that's such a great way to think about it, especially for, for folks in the planning community who have— I mean, basically, you know, they're one of the professions that's just loaded with courageous conversations.

[11:32] - Jaz Ampaw-Farr

Yes. I mean, being courageous day after day in the way that you do, I do feel like it's a nurtured habit. And I wanna be really, it's, a courageous conversation isn't giving in to someone else and being submissive and letting them go. Like it's, planners, it's kind of, you know, you could take a lot from parenting if you've gotta kind of, you don't wanna dominate, but you don't wanna abdicate and you don't wanna be, you know, kind of so oppressive with people. You wanna liberate people, but that means you have to bring support and challenge. Too much support and it's just like, "Oh, good old Mike, he'll sort it out." Too much challenge and people might do it, but they do it out of fear and compliance. That's not long— it's not a long-term plan. So that calibration of support and challenge, which is different for different people, is exactly what brings liberation. And I think that's it for planners. It's treading those waters between past hurts and historical things that have happened, and also, you know, people wanting to invest or not wanting to invest. There's a lot of pressure on being everything to everyone, and I don't think that's the way forward.

I think the way forward is the 3 E's that I talk about: empathy, engage, enroll. That's how change happens. But it happens better when you're taking care of your most precious resource, which is you first.

[12:53] - Mike Johnson

Absolutely. It's like, you know, every flight that we're on, you know, put the mask on and then pick your favorite child.

[13:00] - Jaz Ampaw-Farr

I'm sure that's what they say.

[13:03] - Mike Johnson

So what are should stories?

[13:05] - Jaz Ampaw-Farr

Oh, this is a good one. So should stories are— can I swear? Am I allowed to curse? Shitty family heirlooms. I said a bad word. Um, it's this idea of things that are passed down to you. They're not yours. You didn't ask for them, you didn't choose them, you didn't want them, but they've been gifted to you. Um, like an heirloom that nobody wants, like a terrible clock that is too loud. So, so it's things like my nan who was, um, like married during the war. She was sort of young, in her 20s during the war. She had this thing, little girls should be seen and not heard. And she used to say this to me again and again and again. Now it's just a phrase, it's just something she was told, but because she didn't process it herself, she passed it on. Terrible family heirloom. And then I started to embody it. So my whole thing was, a lot of the— I'm not blaming my nan, my nan was great— but a lot of these stories I told myself was like, you just Dial it down. You're not good enough. You're too much. You're not enough.

So, you know, I'm at the same time— you're too much, you're not enough. Um, nobody's bothered. Don't make a fuss. Be quiet. Be demure. Laugh quietly. And I've got— I laugh like a drain, right? But it's like, change yourself so that you will become acceptable. So, but should stories are so buried under the layers of life, you don't even know they're there. So I ask people, think about what toys you were given when you were younger. Think about if you've got siblings, the different messages your siblings receive to you. Because your stories could be about gender, they could be about sexuality, they could be about race, they could be about social economic backgrounds, successes, failures, role models, your education, your culture, your faith. There are so many things, and it doesn't matter what your stories are as long as you've chosen them. That's the whole thing, is you don't just take on board a story and say, well, that's what I'll do. That's lazy humaning. You know, we have one job, and that is to find out who we are and be that person. So So our should stories get in the way because they hold us back.

And I do different workshops, and I did this whole should stories thing, and we all sat down, and everyone was thinking about their stories and coming up with them. And I said, "Has anyone got a should story they're happy to share?" And one lady said, "Yeah, I have one." And I said, "Okay, share your should story." She said, "My should story is I should have married a man." And it was like, she's gay and she married a woman, but her parents are, you know, well, if you might— And I was like, you know, because historically every woman who's married a man, that's turned out great in every situation. So like, that's not— it doesn't even make sense, that should story. It doesn't even make sense. But it's this thing of like, well, I was told it so often. Like, she got married to a woman, had a bad relationship, it ended, she got married again. But it's just this thing of like, why are we carrying— we upgrade our phones, we upgrade our phones, but we keep the same stories. From childhood, we make them ours and we live them out. And I say, you know what, I change— every New Year I make a New Year's resolution, as my son calls it, resolution.

And my best one was I gave up using the word should. I— or I stopped shoulding on myself, as I said. So instead of should, I'd say would like to, because I'd be like, oh, I should eat better, you know, I should work out more, I should, I should explain to the kids why we don't use the cat as a set of bagpipes, you know, things like good stuff. But it made me feel bad because I didn't do it. It made me feel guilty. So when I started saying, "I would like to eat better," it's like, "Actually, no, I would like, yeah, I would like that." "I would like to work out more." "Well, no, I don't like sweating or being out of breath, but I like the after effects." So, yeah, okay, right. "I would like to meet my children, eye contact, explain." "Yeah, I would like to be a slightly better mum than I am now." So, and suddenly things start to change just from me saying I would like to rather than I should. So should include shame, and the stories that are connected to that can keep you locked in shame.

Shame doesn't come from anywhere good. You don't grow anything good from shame seeds. So what's your story when you decide to be the main character and not an NPC, as my kids would call it? You know, when you're going to be the main character in your own story, what do you— what are you ready to let go of? And what are you ready to step into? That's where should stories are a really useful tool for helping you work that out.

[17:18] - Mike Johnson

And it really is just, just to get down to brass tacks, it's really about treating yourself better, just in that simple way of reframing one, one word, just with a bit of respect, you know.

[17:29] - Jaz Ampaw-Farr

Well, I did an exercise once where it said, you know, your friends come to you and they've, they've made a mistake and they're beating themselves up and they're saying, oh, I'm so stupid, I can't believe I'm such an idiot, oh, I'm so awful. 'What do you say?' And we wrote down our answer, and I was saying, 'Hey, come on, let's— don't use those words to talk about someone I know. That's not true about you. Come on. Also, we can make mistakes, we can come back from them, so let's take this one step at a time.' I wrote down all the things I would say, and then she said, 'Okay, everyone finished?' I'm like, 'Yeah.' She said, 'Okay, now you've made a mistake. Write down what you say to yourself.' And I, I felt very convicted because I looked to what I'd written that I would consider appropriate for someone else. And although I, I didn't write it down because I was so embarrassed, but I knew the sort of things I said to myself in that situation. And I'm kind of like, something's got to change. If I deserve— if I believe everyone deserves compassion, I am also a one, so I have to include myself in that.

And, and it's, it's kind of shifting away from that story of not enoughness or too muchness into a story based on actual facts. Which is often the way other people see you rather than the way you see yourself. And I think particularly with planners, there's something around— I spoke to a lady earlier, I said it's like you're planting flowers in a garden that you're not going to get to see bloom. And there's something beautiful in that because you're on this eternal journey, but there's also something really frustrating because we're human, we want to see things get better in the immediate time. But if you can take your should story away from, I should fix this, I should make this better, into, I would like to be a torchbearer for this journey and give my all during the time that I'm here, then that is a compelling story. And it's a beautiful story for your family and friends to tell about you as well, you know. So I think it's, it's, how do we, how do we navigate burnout? And we change our words. That's literally the way forward.

[19:24] - Mike Johnson

Yeah, just touching on what you said, uh, just at the end there about, um, doing the work and not really seeing the end result, you know. That is definitely a lot of planning For sure. But you made another comment related to that in your, in your talk. It's like a relay race. Yes. And you don't really think about the people in the middle section. No. Without that, it doesn't happen.

[19:44] - Jaz Ampaw-Farr

It doesn't. Everyone's waiting. You go to see, you're going to watch the first runner, right? Because it's like, yeah, this is cool. You're going to come back in for 99. How exciting. But the rest of the time, no one's watching. No one's watching number 73. I made a t-shirt for a friend. It said, be number 73. No one's watching you, but that doesn't make a difference because if you're not there, the huge gap that appears between 72 and 74 now means that we need more runners because you, you didn't show up and do your bit. So now the journey is going to take longer. So it— that's why this whole thing of it's not bragging if it's true, and like recognizing what you've done and owning it is so important. Not just not to make you feel good— I mean, you can feel good, you know, eat some cake if you want to feel good— because what you do next is based on what you believe you deserve and what you believe you can achieve and what you believe is possible. And you don't have accurate picture of that if you don't acknowledge every single tiny success.

So in order for you to be your fullest, fattest self, you need to be able to be seeing the fullest, fattest picture of what you've achieved. And, and that's, that's what I mean. I struggle with this, I struggle with it myself, but I keep a— I've got a truth about you jar. And when someone says something, I write it down and I put it in this jar. And then when I'm sitting there thinking, oh, I don't know if I'm very good at this, I get the jar out and I'm like, let's go for the evidence and data rather than my own thoughts and feelings. Let's focus on that. And being number 73 is one of the hardest things when you're not focusing on the evidence and data. When you're focusing on your own thoughts and feelings, it's— being number 73 is a hard run. So it's, it's 100-meter sprint, right? So you've just got to get round, but you can't do that unless you're focused on what, what has gone before and what will go afterwards.

[21:24] - Mike Johnson

So, um, back to our stories. How important is it for us to write our stories?

[21:31] - Jaz Ampaw-Farr

I mean, my book— I, I started writing that book at 8 years old. It's in— I put this in because I used to get locked in a cellar. It was like a damp cellar, and I'd be locked in there and punished and left there for a while. One of my earliest memories is sort of crouching, trying not to get my clothes wet because it was all wet, and hearing rats at the other side and being terrified. And so I distracted myself by writing. I didn't have any paper, I didn't have any pens, but I wrote in my head. I wrote a book, and the book was called The Truth According to Me, which is cute if you're 8, but if you're 50 and you put that book out there, it sounds a bit arrogant, doesn't it? But I wrote down— I, in my mind, I had chapters, and it was things I was going to say to adults that I didn't have the words for. And in my child mind, people were going to hear me and believe me, and they would make sure I wasn't being abused and hurt anymore, and they'd make sure other children didn't do that.

So that story kept me going when I was in a place where I had no food and no comfort, no warmth and no hope. The story— writing the story down, actually writing it, took a lot longer than I thought it would do because it was harrowing. And there's things in the book that I don't talk about, but I felt important. I wanted to write them down because of the amount of people I have that come up after keynotes and say, because of what you've said, I'm going to live differently. So it was a kind of writing this down is important. But if I don't know that I would encourage everyone to do what I did, because I know it was painful, like it was so painful, and, and it, you know, it kind of, kind of took me out of the race a couple of times. And, and I know what to do when I don't know what to do, and I have a support system and I have a therapist. That was great, but it came, it came at a cost. It was, it was more than it cost to buy, to write, you know.

But I do feel that there is a case for writing your own— I call it a 15-second brag, right? The idea with this is that you— I ask people to talk about themselves for 15 seconds and really like put yourself in the spotlight and shine. And people will say things like, uh, well, you know, so I'm a mum, I think I'm a good mum, but you know, it's hard, uh, obviously, you know, my kids are— it's hard, uh, well, I, I, you know, I'm married, but I don't— I mean, we've had tough time. I mean, I do my best. That's not a 15-second brag, right? That's not it. A 50-second brag is, my, my name's Jazz, and 'You being my friend is going to change your life. Here's why. I am so committed to fighting for your highest good because I want to see you succeed. I know what it means when someone stands shoulder to shoulder with you and encourages you. I want to be that person for you. That's what makes me awesome.' That is a 15-second breath. Do you see what I mean? So I think that form of writing, whether it's journaling or whether it's speaking in front of a mirror or recording the truth and standing on it, I think that's critical for every human.

I think everyone should be doing that because it will help us in what we've got to do next when the challenges come. So, you know, if you've got a book in you, write a book. If you haven't, write a blog post. It's— there's plenty there. If I only wrote about the good stuff, it would have been an Instagram post rather than a book. So you— sometimes it's more than the highs, it's the lows too.

[24:31] - Mike Johnson

Okay, so, so talking about your latest book, which is titled Because of You, This Is Me: The Stories We Tell, the Stories We Change, and the Power of Everyday Heroes, tell us a little bit more about how the actual book came about and what you're really hoping readers take away from it.

[24:47] - Jaz Ampaw-Farr

So I didn't want to write a book, you know. I don't particularly enjoy writing. I guess I do more now. But, um, I, I went to an event and I was supposed to be talking about the power of literacy, and I was in the education world. I advised government. So I was talking to a few people and I suddenly thought, I wonder what it would look like if I told the truth. And that thought made a little bit of sick come up in the back of my throat because I'm like, oh my gosh, we don't want to air our dirty laundry in public. But I wanted the people— there were leaders in the crowd, education leaders— and I wanted them to, to understand what education had given me beyond academia, beyond kind of knowledge, how it transformed me from where I was to where I am, how it had given me the ability to ask better questions and, and think and make better choices and So I kind of shared a little bit of my story. I asked the guy if I could change my slides. He said yes. I shared a little bit. And, um, the very thing that I was terrified of people finding out about me, that I didn't have it all together, that I, you know, didn't have a comfortable upbringing with parents, and it was the very thing that resonated with people.

We had different experiences, but like, we all know what fear is, we all know what shame is, we all know what guilt, what worry is, we all know what it is to want better. For others than we had for ourselves. And this kind of connected resonance happened. And it was from that talk that I was invited to do a TEDx talk, which I didn't really know what it was at the time. And even in that, I was just going to talk about failure. And on the, the day before— that, literally the day before the TEDx talk, one of the coaches came over and said, um, are you going to talk about The Apprentice? And I was like, uh, no. Why would I keep telling everyone I got fired in the first week? I'm trying to get it taken off Google. It's just like, I think it does a lot of work for you. I think you should talk about it. And I got quite cross with her because we'd worked together, and I said, you know what, people, I'll tell you the truth about The Apprentice. I'll tell you what was going on that week.

The week that I got fired, the night before it was about to air, so they run— I was getting fired on Wednesday and it was on Monday. I got a phone call from my brothers and my sister, who had been estranged. I'd left when I was 11, and they kind of felt that I'd abandoned them. I understand that, but I was a kid myself, so we weren't really talking. And they phoned me, and I thought they'd seen publicity about The Apprentice and they were phoning because of that, but it wasn't. What had happened is my brother, who was next down to me, Paul, had taken a heroin overdose and died, and they were calling to tell me. And, um, I hadn't been speaking to Paul. We'd been in the middle of an argument and he died while we were still cross with each other. And I remember, I mean, it just— I just collapsed. I just collapsed to the floor. And the production team, the BBC, were fantastic. I phoned them up. I said, like, this is what's happening. And, you know, they took care of me and it was great. And they moved shows around.

But I kind of spent that week between living in this space of losing my brother and feeling this enormous amount of guilt. And then trying to do this TV show, which just feels like it's got nothing to do with anything. And it was just this immense week of being present, you know. And after that, there was this— I remember I saying, I think I said on my TEDx talk, I was washing up, but I was actually in the shower because I make my husband come and stand in the bathroom. And while I say talk to me, but what I mean is be quiet and let me talk. So he comes into that, and I was chatting, and I was saying I know a way through, and I'm not telling anyone because I'm worried about what they'll think of me. But if I'd spoken, if I speak, then it might be that there are more Jazas and less Pauls. So that's when I started thinking I should, I should talk about this, I should say something. So when the TEDx talk came, I was still living in fear. I was still kind of, you know, trying to pretend that I was some acceptable person to what that was to me at the time.

But there was something around the way that the talk had resonated. Actually, this letting people into that personal side of you might actually be a gift. And I can't tell you the amount of people, Mike, that say to me, I needed to hear this today. So putting those together and kind of pulling that out, I suddenly realized I had more that I could share and it was more valuable if I was authentic and not scared. And that kind of shifted in everything. That shifted the whole thing from the, the talk to the TEDx talk to the being speaking. And that, at that point, that's when Crown House approached me and said, would you like to write a book? And I'm like, what about? Because I'm not doing anything about maths. Is that what you want? Because I'm not doing that. And he said, about what you've talked about. And I was still in there, well, no one, no one cares. I mean, half the people don't believe me. I disclosed 4 times before and I don't believe me. Why would I even tell people this? I don't want to— what if people don't hire me anymore to do work in schools because, you know, I had so much fear around it.

But it was an invitation, and I have a kind of standing order of yes if people ask me to do something. You know, I'm a reformed people pleaser, but I'm like, will it bring me joy? Will it make a difference? Have I got the energy and the time? It's an easy yes. And so I sort of said yes, and then I think I took the longest of any author to complete my book. I don't go back and go, I've got another idea. So, uh, so yeah, I mean, saying yes and then working out the details afterwards has been something that has universally worked well for me. Obviously, you know, I've got fired from TV shows and very public failures, but I also have had a lot of success from starting before I'm ready. And that's— the book was very much starting before I was ready.

[30:34] - Mike Johnson

Well, and everybody, you know, who has the luxury of getting to read this book, you know, they get to benefit from all you've gone through.

[30:40] - Jaz Ampaw-Farr

Yeah, I think that the big thing is when people read it and they like leave a review on Amazon or leave a review on social media, it's when they talk about what they've— how they've changed, what they've done as a result. That makes it worth it, you know, that it's like— what do you call the cream you put on a burn? Because in the UK it's Savlon. What do you have, like, aloe? Aloe. Okay, so it's like human aloe being rubbed over. So Yeah, thank you to everyone who's bought the book, and a bigger thank you to those who've read it, because it's quite an attractive book. You could use it as a coaster, but if you actually read it, it's good fun too. So thank you for doing that.

[31:17] - Mike Johnson

Well, you've definitely gained a lot of new fans here today.

[31:19] - Jaz Ampaw-Farr

Oh, thank you.

[31:20] - Mike Johnson

The opening keynote this morning was— you hit it out of the park.

[31:24] - Jaz Ampaw-Farr

That's so sweet.

[31:26] - Mike Johnson

So we don't have a lot of time left. I know that you— we're going to get you on your way. You have some Detroit things to do.

[31:31] - Jaz Ampaw-Farr

Oh, I do. Yes. I've got boat rides and drag shows and everything to sort out.

[31:37] - Mike Johnson

I wanted to just chat a little bit about your public speaking career. I mean, that's basically kind of the main thing that you do now, right? Yeah, public speaking. So what advice do you have for planners who, you know, have to speak in front of the city council or make presentations to the community on a regular basis? Specifically, any advice on how to overcome any fear or self-doubt, or like you mentioned earlier, potential imposter syndrome? Like, what would you say?

[32:03] - Jaz Ampaw-Farr

Yeah, I mean, this is a big one, and I say to everybody, whether they're just doing a best man speech, or, you know, leading meetings, or becoming a speaker, there's two rules of speaking. There's only two rules. The first rule is it's not about you, okay? That's the most important rule. And the second most important rule is it's all about you. So there are, there are contradictory themes there. But the first thing is, people say to me all the time, oh, you're so authentic. It's after being— after you're so inspirational, you're so authentic. That's what I get second. And I'm like, what's the opposite of that? I mean, it's— what would I— if you're not authentic, that's like putting an act on. That's exhausting, isn't it, doing that all the time? And yet we step into these roles, don't we? We get up on stage and there's a lectern and we stand behind the lectern and suddenly we feel we've got to be a different version of ourselves. In this age, in this digital age of AI, which is obviously going to change the way we live and work and then potentially kill us all, so we should enjoy it now.

In this age, authenticity is a currency. It buys and garners loyalty. If there is one tool in a planner's toolkit that needs enhancing, it is the tool of being who you are, because people respond to that. You don't have to be the same in order to be connected and to find a connection. People have to see that you're, you're not just for them, but you're with them. You're happy to do with this. So when you're speaking That's the most important thing to think about. I would stand backstage— I mean, I've done like over 3,000 keynotes now, but at the beginning I would stand backstage and I'll be going through all the things that could go wrong. Oh gosh, what if I fall up the stairs? What if the slides don't work? What if nobody laughs? What if everybody laughs in the wrong place? What— I would be running through all these things, and all those things are about me looking stupid. It's all self-preservation. It's me being selfish. What if I look silly? 'What if people don't like me? What if I fail?' Well, big news, there's 1,000 people out there who have got emails piling up, and parents with dementia, and kids who have been diagnosed, and, and you're sat here thinking about yourself.

They've given their time in the hope that something you say might give them one small step that they can go on. They are gifting you time that they will never get back, and you're sat here thinking about yourself. Because obviously my self-talk isn't Very kind. But it was like this thing of like, actually, what am I doing? That makes sense. So what I do is I move the lever off myself. What do I look like? What if I, you know, say the wrong thing? Whatever. I move the lever off myself and I push it onto the audience. And then what I'm thinking about is what— what privilege, what an honor it is to be able to stand in front of my peers and colleagues. I'm not going to be the most intelligent person in the room, but I might be the person who's thought the most about what we're doing or experienced the most about what we're doing. I can— what a privilege it is to be able to share some of that as a gift in the hope that they will then go on and reshare and do that. And when I take the lever off me and when I put the lever on the audience, I am no longer nervous because I'm, I'm not thinking about me, I'm thinking about other people.

The other thing I do, I don't know, I'm not, I'm not a massive prayer, but I actually pray for the audience before I go on. Because I know there are people out there who have been through the same thing I have, and I know it's going to be a journey for them. I know there are people out there who are stuck in, in a situation they don't want to be in, but they don't know how to get out of. So I just like, you know, cover people in— I just— whatever is out there, I just want it to be there for you, because I want, I want to invite you on this journey with me. And so my entire focus is on other people. It's never on me. If I focus on myself, I'm like, oh my gosh, my hair's crooked, my teeth are not straight. I think I've got a bit of string hanging out my left pocket. You know, one of my shoes has got a mark on it. I mean, good Lord, it's exhausting. I, you know, I'm going to criticize myself into oblivion. But the moment I start thinking about other people, suddenly you just realize what— it's just so humbling.

It's, it's an honor to be asked to share. And in fact, someone came up to me today afterwards and said, you know, I stand up in front of people, or— and I worked in New York, and now I've come to work in a different place in Florida 'And I— and people seem to think I know a lot, and I feel like a fraud because I don't know that I know a lot. It's very different.' And I said, 'Yeah, but here's another way of looking at that. I will share all of my knowledge and expertise with you, anything and everything that I have that you need. I will share that with you. In return— return on my investment— I would love you to do the same with me. That would be amazing, because then we can both grow together.' I mean, that— it's the same thing as like, oh, they think I know a lot because I've come from another city. So it's just reframing what you're doing. Public speaking is about reframing. You're not speaking to the public, you're speaking to one person in that crowd who needs to hear what you've got to say.

And I think I have an unfair advantage because I do actually care quite a lot about people. I genuinely do actually care quite a lot. And so I think it makes it harder for me to— pretending, or— I couldn't do that. I couldn't do that. I'm— I— in fact, I've turned— I did have a quite a big company asked me to do something which is quite exciting and quite glamorous, but I just— they weren't fully in. They were very much, 'Oh, just say what you like, it doesn't matter, we don't need a meeting, just say.' And I'm like, 'Yeah, you need someone who doesn't care as much as I do.' If you're— if you care, then speak, and speak to the people, speak to the person. Don't perform, because it's like— I mean, I've said this a lot of times, but when I was taking my son for sixth form college, which is like upper high school, high school, you choose where you go. And all we decided, our whole deciding factor was what's it like, the person who's speaking, what are they doing? So when people stood behind a lectern, self-preservation protection, and read notes, that's saying to me, I would rather you felt I wasn't connecting with you than I missed a word and look stupid.

Now I'm not saying we shouldn't read notes, but it was the what's your priority, because obviously you use like a— what's that thing Subtitler, screenwriter, right? The words come up.

[38:01] - Mike Johnson

Oh, the teleprompter.

[38:02] - Jaz Ampaw-Farr

Teleprompter. Teleprompter's great because if you've got a lot to say, how are you going to remember it all, right? I'm telling my own story, you can't forget that. You need that. But if you're just reading off a sheet and you don't pick your head up once, you're saying to me that you, you know, you're not really talking to me, you've just got something. And in fact, my answer to that is send me an email. If it's just going to be words, just send me an email. I'm here to connect and engage. Is that what I'm looking— so people who step out behind the platform and have got notes but are sort nervous, I'm immediately in. I'm like, oh, I want to hear from you. Whereas people who are like putting all these barriers, what can I do to protect myself? And I'm like, oh, I want to feel safe. People want to feel safe. So what is it about you that you can do to show people that you are being professionally vulnerable and personally authentic? Because that is the thing that will make people lean in.

[38:49] - Mike Johnson

Well, Jas, thank you so much for taking some time out of your day after your keynote to sit down and talk to us on the APA podcast. It's been wonderful having you here. And we really appreciate your story. And I know I speak for all of the members and everyone in attendance that, that they really, really appreciated everything that you had to say today. So thank you so much.

[39:08] - Jaz Ampaw-Farr

Thank you. It's been a pleasure. Thank you, Mike.

[39:10] - Mike Johnson

And we'll have in the show notes for this episode all the things you just talked about. We'll link to those. Thanks again, Jess.

[39:16] - Jaz Ampaw-Farr

My pleasure. See you all soon.

[39:18] - Mike Johnson

Thanks for listening to another episode of the APA Podcast. If you want to hear more great conversations with experts from across the planning landscape, subscribe to the APA Podcast so you'll never miss an episode. You can find the APA Podcast on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, Overcast, or wherever you get your podcasts. You can also find our entire library of past episodes at planning.org/podcast.